Yack.. I know you get your jollies off by beating me in teams with Eng.. If you look at the deaths instead of your screenshot of points, you`d see i was carrying org. .. You must be thinking of somebody else cause I always used to beat you in teams non-stop. Only tourney I`ve actually played in that i remember was beating you in a 1v1 with you congratulating me after.. . You don`t recall cause you don`t like to remember when you`ve been beaten. You never beat me 1v1 ever. That`s a rare thing to do.
when did yack become good? cuz I remember him being a super newbie.
no shit, he was the laughing stock of jedi knight
Hey Sculpt,
Zardoz, Novacaine and me are playing now and then.
Why dont you come and join in for a game bgj nf at http://www.gamesurge.net/chat/jk ?
or contact me on msn at: [email protected],
aight
Bill Hicks: Life is just a ride
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1RQmnSJoRg
Yack.. I know you get your jollies off by beating me in teams with Eng.. If you look at the deaths instead of your screenshot of points, you`d see i was carrying org. .. You must be thinking of somebody else cause I always used to beat you in teams non-stop. Only tourney I`ve actually played in that i remember was beating you in a 1v1 with you congratulating me after.. . You don`t recall cause you don`t like to remember when you`ve been beaten. You never beat me 1v1 ever. That`s a rare thing to do.
Jackie, what were all your alliases? Almost every 1 v 1 tourny I entered I managed to place in and won at least half a dozen of them. I really didn't care for playing in tournies since they were more endurance tests than skill tests in my mind as often they would take hours to complete. The ones I didn't place in I usually just forfeited because of having to do other stuff.
Yes, I don't remember games I lost just about as much as I don't remember games I won.
It's been 5 years or so, unless you've taken screens of every game you played its tough to remember everything.
I do have a screen of that game you described with England and I beating you.
Yes, maybe you beat me 1 v 1. Regardless, if you beat me once or not, that doesn't make each one of us the better player based on one game. It just means we were in the same ballpark if we had a good duel. It's not like we played all the time, and you beat me all the time. I've beaten a number of elite players repeatedly, and I've lost to a few of them on occasion.
We played teams in tourny's a few times, but they were usually close and I think we split winning depending on our partners. I think I beat you with Hexen and england as my partners. You beat my team barely when I was partners with Axion and maybe oxide? I don't remember.
shut the fuck up
I think it's best said this way... Who the heck is "nighthawk"? I don't recall... 
if you list prince/vds then you have to list We Love Phelan, aka WLP. same skill levels.
Also, good to hear from you Sculpt
I appreciate your voice for the unspoken clan. There are many great players that are forgotten. O yes, Sculpt was in Prince too for sometime or not. I am amazed you managed to get so many wins on cases when hardly anyone was playing when you began playing on cases. Even I was done with cases ladder, when you started. If I recall though Sculpt, I had my many wins against you
I played on Cases Ladder when it was still very active. Site says i joined Feb 2000. I was JAtM_Sculpt and playing Cases long, long before I joined Prince. Here's the first games I played:
BisoN=OK= 51 32 WON Sat Mar 11 2000 18:55:54 PST
HecRol 77 32 WON Sat Mar 11 2000 18:36:45 PST
Elipser-=[TeK]=- 181 32 LOST Sat Mar 11 2000 18:10:43 PST
DyNaMiC_SLDR 318 32 LOST Sat Mar 11 2000 17:55:44 PST
Knight_Seifer 181 32 WON Sat Mar 11 2000 17:12:03 PST
RAPTOR 166 32 WON Sat Mar 11 2000 16:27:26 PST
Prince_Gemini 64 32 WON Sat Mar 11 2000 15:30:55 PST
EX_Josh_V 45 32 WON Sat Mar 11 2000 14:49:47 PST
Azukre 323 31 LOST Fri Mar 10 2000 20:54:13 PST
Redeemer 36 30 WON Thu Mar 9 2000 21:26:18 PST
EcUaKnoX 134 31 WON Wed Mar 8 2000 19:18:30 PST
HDK_MajiC 22 31 LOST Wed Mar 8 2000 19:04:47 PST
Drizzt_OK 17 30 WON Fri Mar 3 2000 04:31:15 PST
Azukre 73 30 LOST Wed Mar 1 2000 21:44:43 PST
El_Foo 41 32 WON Tue Feb 29 2000 19:18:52 PST
Jonny_QuEsT 66 32 LOST Mon Feb 28 2000 19:38:56 PST
_-=OmNiPoTeNt=-_ 80 32 WON Mon Feb 28 2000 19:22:46 PST
HDK_MajiC 36 32 WON Mon Feb 28 2000 18:57:43 PST
TUJ_SUPERMAN 28 38 WON Sat Feb 26 2000 20:01:29 PST
DE_DoN_CroN 52 34 WON Fri Feb 25 2000 18:09:44 PST
__MaDruK__JCS 16 45 WON Thu Feb 24 2000 15:33:05 PST
DeAthBoLT_OK 50 45 LOST Thu Feb 24 2000 12:41:38 PST
AcidBaby 32 45 LOST Thu Feb 24 2000 12:34:05 PST
Bison! 
Hey Nova? I forget, what was clan "OK"?
Beat TUJ_SUPERMAN from the gate.
I did miss the period when Lonestar, Quake, Crusader, Judge, DArtagnan, Legacy, Yogut, played their main period of playing. I was fortunate to play Legacy a lot, and also got to duel Crusader when he came back to "visit" (that was awesome), played with Judge, but damned I never got to duel him 1v1.
And yes, Yack, your connection was very rough for me, you would always be teleporting/blinking for me, very hard to have any hits stick on you. Yes, you were a great saberist -- but having played at least 90% of the best that ever played, I never thought you were better than me, rather you had a very nasty connection for me, and you weren't the only one. Just the way it was. But I always knew you would never cheat. That's all that mattered. Naturally I loved to team with you, because a lot of players had real hard time with your connection and getting a hit to stick on you.
Hey Sculpt,
Zardoz, Novacaine and me are playing now and then.
Why dont you come and join in for a game bgj nf at http://www.gamesurge.net/chat/jk ?
or contact me on msn at: [email protected],
aight
Bill Hicks: Life is just a ride
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1RQmnSJoRg
Awesome! I got that bookmarked. Im going to try. There's some interest in playing some JK again in my clan, eXistence. Im eX_VasEcto.
And yes, Yack, your connection was very rough for me, you would always be teleporting/blinking for me, very hard to have any hits stick on you. Yes, you were a great saberist -- but having played at least 90% of the best that ever played, I never thought you were better than me, rather you had a very nasty connection for me, and you weren't the only one. Just the way it was. But I always knew you would never cheat. That's all that mattered. Naturally I loved to team with you, because a lot of players had real hard time with your connection and getting a hit to stick on you.
Yes, you are right Sculpt. You did start playing about then, but I regarded you as a nobody / newbie aspiring to be good for a long time probably when you first began ladder. I eventually came to respect you though as a decent saberist probably when I started insisting on you joining Prince for awhile. You did surpass me for career wins on ladder mainly because I stopped playing ladder before you did:
http://www.igl.net/php/page.php?p=hall& ... vr=cgi&pl=
That is still a lot of wins for both of us. Also, my name is there twice, not sure why?
Maybe, you didn't regard me as better than you move wise. Yet, I somehow managed to win consistently against you. I think a lot of people didn't regard me as better than them move wise, yet I beat them consistently again and again.
It could have been the lag, or it could have been I was just more used to my lag and exploiting it to win.
One example that could attest to that is Morthe_Hap or Eugenius who I frequently beat at sabers.
Same with "Neo", one of the top 5 ladder saberists of all time. He was in Prince under different alliases Prince_Neo, Prince_CopyRite. Maybe even Nova "Prince_Bison" would agree to that, even though he occasionally won against me 
. Of course when he joined Prince, he wasn't that good yet. I beat him after he left though too.
Anyhow my connection was pretty laggy up until I got cable. Not too many people could hit me; not just you.
Lag was part of the game back then. I managed to hit people plenty well, so I kept playing and perfecting the lag.
Once I got cable, I think I was equally as good, however. I could time my hits on people a lot better without worrying about lag. Anyone who played me in 2001, 2002 and when I played some in 2005 with the reemergence of JK could attest to that. We will have to play sometime this summer when I have time, and I'll remind you .
In that chat log: Prince_Gemini was Prince_Oconnor. Supposedly a cheat, but I never pursued / caught him. Didn't really have time. He won 50 ladder games or so in a row, a few tournies, and then got bored with JK.
I didn't have much time or patience for 4 hour tournies in 2001 and onward nor to play in Ladder where you had to wait for an hour to get a game in 2001 because of the few number of people playing in it.
I was #1 on ladder, top 20 numerous times, won a handful of 1 v 1 and 2 v 2 tournies, and decided I had nothing left to prove. In my mind, more importantly than my individual accolades was the fact that numerous people that were in prince were winning tournaments too. People that I trained, convinced to join Prince by beating myself were then winning tournaments against other people. I could then take pride in each one of their victories as my own in a way. If someone that you are better than, wins a tournament that means that you could have won that tournament.
I remember the first tournament I won ever; I believe I beat Judgement_Day in the final round:
I also remember, when they made an alternate ladder because someone didn't like how cases was running. Then in this ladder I made it to #1:
Also those people who voted for JCS need to realize JCS last 2 generations under Dr00me and Bartolo were tainted by mediocre talent.
Here are two "no name" Prince era 2000 or so beating Dr00me and Java_JCS: These two Prince I would definitely not regard as the top 50 saberists in prince of all time, maybe not even the top 100.
Java I believe joined Prince not too much later. We recruited him for his gun skills though not his saber skills. Of course, Prince wasn't ever great at gunning. We had a couple of OK gunners. Java was OK. A lot of the older founding members were originally gunners though in demo (where Prince started): Blight, Snoopy, and Karbon and me being a couple of them. I originally preferred FF gunning (demo). Those Prince who sucked at sabers were often old founding members that were gunners. Those guys wanted to recruit gunners to have people to play with. We ended up getting a lot of mediocre talent from the fact we weren't just a sabers only clan. We were never a newbie haven though. We dominated the JK demo realm all aspects of the game in 1997,1998 and moved on from there. Frozen and Bartolo can attest to that.
Internet connection was always the enigma, the x-factor, in nf sabers. I know, that you know, I'm not just talking about lag. Like a lot of players, I was typing "ping x" throughout the game/match, every game. (Then when I got the god detector, Id hit that throughout the match too). After hundreds of games of practice, a guy knows exactly where a player is at 500 ping, 300 ping, 750 ping, you know the distance. No, I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about "lost packets", which covers a number of factors. It means an actual hit isn't going to score. It was part of game. Some players liked to insist, "if my connection is bad, it's just as hard for me to score a hit on you" -- that merely made logical abstract sense, but it wasn't the physical reality. When you became an expert, and you played that person multiple times, and you'd test it when they were standing still a.f.k., and you knew the "just as likely actual hits would score" simply wasn't the case.
One could have build a program to prove it, but that was never going to happen. Many people would have loved to have a floating observer-judge assessing points that the game didn't score. LOL! For the majority of players, there were some specific players' connections were generally harder to score hits on than others; but in fact, it was a connection-to-connection specific phenomena. Most of us experienced someone changing their carrier/connection type, and overnight the scoring would significantly shift. It was also common to see, not just player style-wise, but connection-wise: A beats B, B beats C, C beats A. It's just the way it was. Though you wanted to, it didn't help any to bitch about it.
In regards to Prince -- no doubt, activity level, all-purpose clan functioning, and duration wise, Prince was one of the top 5 JK clans of all-time. Prince was active basically from day one to day zero. Very few clans were even in existence for that span, let alone being very active throughout, like Prince was. Recruiting new players, training into excellent players, active forum, active players in Cases and tournies, hosting tournies, that's the complete clan right there. Not unlike WLP clan, except Prince was a bit smaller, more personable, and more sabers orientated. Basically, 50% or better of all notable nf saberists were in Prince at one point. Who hasnt heard of Prince?
In regards to Prince -- no doubt, activity level, all-purpose clan functioning, and duration wise, Prince was one of the top 5 JK clans of all-time. Prince was active basically from day one to day zero. Very few clans were even in existence for that span, let alone being very active throughout, like Prince was. Recruiting new players, training into excellent players, active forum, active players in Cases and tournies, hosting tournies, that's the complete clan right there. Not unlike WLP clan, except Prince was a bit smaller, more personable, and more sabers orientated. Basically, 50% or better of all notable nf saberists were in Prince at one point. Who hasnt heard of Prince?
Thanks buddy you were pretty much right on there . Two corrections: First, Prince unlike WLP was around much longer. Second, Prince skill level blew the covers off of WLP. I don't know if a WLP member ever placed in a tournament / cracked top 20 in ladder. I can attest to 100's of victories against WLP in Week of War. In fact, I don't know if any WLP ever beat any Prince other than maybe in a FFA. We had a few Prince who would allias as WLP to humble some hot shots. "WLP_Blue_Dawg = Allias"
MasterSage_Syk Losing to WLP: 
Bartolo Losing to WLP: 
I liked how you described the Lost packet phenomenom too. Player A beats player B. Player B beats C. Then player C somehow beats A. There were certain people I hated to play because I had trouble hitting them period. They had trouble hitting me as well, which would result in multiple hour long duels until one of us gave and said screw it this isn't worth the effort. Most notorious of these opponenets for me was: Hexen, England, FroZen, and Soulreaper.
Of course, Frozen and Soul were said to hack at times. I could believe how people thought it.
As for Legacy, which you mentioned playing a lot of Sculpt, I don't think I ever played him. He was kind of always conveniently not around when I wanted to play him.
Here is another rather humorous photo: Anyone remember JHS? Here's a pic of a couple Prince beating JCS 100 to -1 : 
Reminding me a bit of wodz more and more Yack. Like i said people don`t like to remember when they`ve been beaten. I don`t give a shit about screenshots back in 98. I`m not a faggot like Wodz.
haha.. ok I won't show anymore screenshots. I'm just trying to put a thread of doubt in people's minds who think JCS was the world's best sabers clan of all time.
Not saying any other particular clan was better, just that there were a lot of people in JCS in their mid to later days who weren't all that great.
The rest of those clans on that list I really didn't have a ton of experience playing. IRN I played the most of and they were always pretty good.
those shitty JCS you are referring to are the ones from bartolo's Generation 9999999 JCS.
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