What is the best sabers clan of ALL TIME?

black/saint/jackie = the same person, the guy who likes the rangers, who are getting eliminated in the first round!

WodZ is a JK dictionary you got PWNT! Warping is like newbie against wodz on his 14.4 modem. Wodz who are these newbies?????

bump

for your information

chronos started all of these clans

NTS was the best clan, at least we never cared for that

This whole topic is relatively stupid to debate because
1.) Define Best? It is a relative term.
Best skilled 1 on 1 , 2 v 2, best as in quantity with quality or just quality. Also, quality over length of time or just quality over short periods of time.
I'm sure there was a couple of 2 or 3 people clans that were near unbeatable for a month or so. Does that make them the best? Define best.

2.) Impossibility to compare based on generational gaps. Players that played with little or no lag in 2001 to end of JK never got to play the dial up guys in 1997 to 1998.

I'm suprised no one has VDS on the list or Prince for that matter as Prince was around since the founding of JK to the wipe from the zone.
Little known facts about Prince and VDS:
- Bartolo was originally a Prince member trained by Prince_Yevaud and me (back when I was still a rookie really)
- I was not the original founder of Prince.
- Prince started as a demo only clan in the summer of 1997
- Most of VDS's members were from originally Prince members. Some even quit VDS to join Prince and then rejoined VDS. We had quite a rivalry for a long time.
- These were the following people that were both in VDS and Prince at one point in time:
Most people won't recognize these names as elite but VDS members and I can verify these were top saberists of 2000 to 2002 era JK. Most of us do have experience beating older Ladder leaders like Judgement:

VDS and Prince Members: Axion, Sculpt, Gigas, Oxide, Novacaine, FroZen (not sure if he was in VDS or not), England, Sacred, Hexen, Zodiac, Pun, Zerocool, Eclipse, Neo(Copyrite)

A couple of these guys may have been notorious cheats, but who knows / who cares. I'm sure some of the 1997, 1998 JKers were too.

One correction on my part Yackman, I was never in VDS.
Just two clans, Prince and then later NTS.

A tag that came about more often than others when I played what I considered to be the best of bgj nf 1v1players was VDS.

aiight
local music for local people: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPcCWMnB8-w

thanks ach update fixed: I never remembered what happened to you. I just figured after Prince you went somewhere else, never was sure where. When you said 2 clans, I figured one was VDS. I got you and Axion mixed up in my mind.

I do remember we used to team and have the same black and white marble sabers though

This whole topic is relatively stupid to debate because
1.) Define Best? It is a relative term.
Best skilled 1 on 1 , 2 v 2, best as in quantity with quality or just quality. Also, quality over length of time or just quality over short periods of time.
I'm sure there was a couple of 2 or 3 people clans that were near unbeatable for a month or so. Does that make them the best? Define best.

2.) Impossibility to compare based on generational gaps. Players that played with little or no lag in 2001 to end of JK never got to play the dial up guys in 1997 to 1998.

I'm suprised no one has VDS on the list or Prince for that matter as Prince was around since the founding of JK to the wipe from the zone.
Little known facts about Prince and VDS:
- Bartolo was originally a Prince member trained by Prince_Yevaud and me (back when I was still a rookie really)
- I was not the original founder of Prince.
- Prince started as a demo only clan in the summer of 1997
- Most of VDS's members were from originally Prince members. Some even quit VDS to join Prince and then rejoined VDS. We had quite a rivalry for a long time.
- These were the following people that were both in VDS and Prince at one point in time:
Most people won't recognize these names as elite but VDS members and I can verify these were top saberists of 2000 to 2002 era JK. Most of us do have experience beating older Ladder leaders like Judgement:

VDS and Prince Members: Axion, Sculpt, Gigas, Oxide, Novacaine, FroZen (not sure if he was in VDS or not), England, Sacred, Hexen, Zodiac, Pun, Zerocool, Eclipse, Neo(Copyrite)

A couple of these guys may have been notorious cheats, but who knows / who cares. I'm sure some of the 1997, 1998 JKers were too.

Yack - PuN and Frozen were never in VDS.
Reason as to why VDS wasn't included in this thread is because they think that the only "elite" clans were from the Old school days...

Sorry Yack,

Prince will never be recognized as a good clan. You produced more newbies than any other clan on the zone. Your clan is more recognizable as a pokeman clan or a gay final fantasy clan in canyon Oasis. I`d say JE produced more good players then Prince. You had a few decent players but nobody dominate.

VDS is not recognized either cause it was just a hub for some decent players winding down JK. I was in VDS, and ya there were some good players at the time and it was more of a friends clan... but no one played that much anymore. Then your prince buddies joined VDS, it was the second wave of players for VDS and that`s when VDS thought they were leet., I`m sure they were well established by then, but no one fucking played.. Was too late for VDS. Novacaine you barely played when you were in VDS.. Subz played like once or twice when i was there.. You can have GOOD players in a clan but if you don`t play, it doesn`t make it any best of all time, especially if there are like one or two matchs on the zone..

Prince just sucked black hairy BALLS.. That`s what you guys were best of all time in..

if you list prince/vds then you have to list We Love Phelan, aka WLP. same skill levels.

logan speaks the true

Heyo, KittyKatz!

It is odd posting to a thread started four years ago... but I see there's some posts even yesterday. It was fun to reminisce, the JK Zone days, reading the thread. Always nice to see one's name mentioned like twenty times, mostly from replies.

Best sabers clan of ALL TIME-
The question of the thread, "What is the best sabers clan of ALL TIME?", that really has to be left up to the knowledgeable saberists who were involved in the community-wide sabering scene roughly 1998-2002. That's a tall order right there, isn't it? The only person I know of would be Wodz, from what he told me, and available records. I would just be guessing as to whether some other players were around playing, community-wide, without long absences. That I know of, Legacy and Judgement_Day might be the other players who would have a good idea.

Afraid it wouldn't be me (who would know the best saber clan ever). In 1999 me and my group of friends, JAtM (Jedi Against the Machine), and our other clan friends WC (Wrecking Crew), ETI (Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence), would keep to the Zone and to ourselves (most of us) -- we didn't do Case's Ladder, NF saber touries (except our own), or mingle with, what to some is "more well known clans". (some CTF players would probably know ETI's Cultosaurus, DJMelody, Fireclown.) Which leads me to another point about this best clan question...

Since I played way too much JK, like most of you guys, some four years, including 11th on the All-time Most Wins on Case's Ladder (not counting Lonestar listed twice), having sabered literally close to a thousand different players -- I can tell you, just in the circle of players of JAtM and WC, there were some exceptionally good NF saberists (DJ_Zzizz/JAtM_Cyclone, WC_BattleBlade, just to name two), that most of you guys never had the pleasure of playing. And that's just me... think of the 100s of other clans. Even Wodz, Legacy and Judge would have never played them. And so they'll never be considered on this forum. Just a little perspective.

JCS History/Bartollo-
Concerning this thread, and JCS clan history, I have to say some of you guys are being much to harsh on Bartolo. First of all, he was an excellent NF saberist; no question about it. I also like Bart, he's hilarious, good guy. I thought he was a pretty good leader. You have to consider he was leader in the fading years of JK on the Gaming Zone. Things weren't the same then. That last JCS generation was a bit of a repository of well-known good saber and gun players, many of whom were semi-retired. We had some of the very best players, but yea, JCS ballooned a bit and had a handful of non-top-50 players in it. The literally-married JCS members, Cronach and Athena, weren't exceptionally good players, but they were some of the best loyal JCS clan members of all-time -- and oh my, did they add drama to the clan. They actually separated, and posted husband-wife personal fights on the forum. You can't beat that kind of clan entertainment. That's great clan stuffings right there.

So yea, if you're going to say Bartolo sucked and drove JCS in the ground because he let non-top 50 players in the clan, then yea, that did happen -- but JCS also had some 20 of the best 50 players playing at the time. I should say, too, that I tried to get Bartolo to let some non-top 50 players join, and he usually said, "no, they're not good enough". Day-to-day he kept some tough standards, but sure, as a leader of a clan that was trying to have some fun at a top competition level and top clan reputation, I think he did a good job. Just my opinion.

Hey to all of you! You know who you are! At the risk of not naming everyone, much love to Euphoria, Yack, Legacy, Soultaker/MrE, Clumsy, Ripley, Nova, Zodiac, England, Subzero, Klav, Petro, Oxy, Vanion, Nomad, Lyricist, Bart, Wodz, Morth_Hap, ChRiS_cHiN, SaberThrust, Hexster, Phanlanx, Phanton, and you.

PS - Yes, Pun, you did become an excellent saberist. And yes, you were an annoying little ass when I first met you, but you did change. What a concept, eh? = )

shut the fuck up

if you list prince/vds then you have to list We Love Phelan, aka WLP. same skill levels.

VDS and Prince were both far better skilled than WLP definitely. We would play WLP in WoW (Week of war) just for an easy win a lot of times. WoW was newbiefied yes, but it was fun to crush the newbies IGF, WLP, some other canyon oasis dwelling newbie clans. Prince always dwelt in Nar / Ladder when there was still a ladder. (demo in 1997).

If anyone had the WoW records you would see hundreds of games in which Prince beat WLP. WLP beat Prince maybe once in a blue moon, and usually it was due to someone alliasing as a WLP playing a lower skilled Prince.

To bring Prince down to the level of WLP is JK blasphemy.
Sure Prince was never truly elite because of the sure amount of members in the clan. However, we definitely distinguished ourselves as "non-newbie". Most anyone that had any close ties to Prince or played Prince no a reoccurring basis would agree.

As for your interpretation Jackie. I recall beating you numerous times in teams tournaments. I can't recall playing you 1v1. What's it matter though anyhow?

Also, good to hear from you Sculpt I appreciate your voice for the unspoken clan. There are many great players that are forgotten. O yes, Sculpt was in Prince too for sometime or not. I am amazed you managed to get so many wins on cases when hardly anyone was playing when you began playing on cases. Even I was done with cases ladder, when you started. If I recall though Sculpt, I had my many wins against you but you got better as time progressed.