who DIDNT cheat?

England, I remember when you first joined Prince, you had your sounds all wacked out from I guess your cog experiments. You were still hittable so I thought nothing of it, and later that problem dissipated.

On the topic of WoW: ya WoW was a joke.. it was only good competition when Prince, VDS, and JCS were all in it for a few months. One of the months HeXen was in Prince and we were in WoW, I have some nice screens of beating up on IGF and WLP newbies 40 to 3 in team games .. ridiculous stuff hehe.
And in duels.. My Lord,.. 10 to 0.. 10 to 1 were quite typical games. The only reason why I never won a WoW is because you would have to play 24/7 in order to do so, and I went up against some good people in duels and would occasionally lose a game.. instead of just constantly raping WLP / IGF newbies.

I also remember Prince Alliased as WLP to beat JCS.. like I think Oxide was WLP_Blue_Dawg and he beat Bartolo for a ladder game... just because JCS wouldnt play any Prince or anyone good for ladder just beat up on the newbies in order to win.

On the topic of cheating, I never cheated. I knew about it all, experimented with various cogs in my newbie days in 1997 - 1998 in demo such as build cogs which were a ton of fun. .Other than that, didn't cheat. If there was a list of people that you could honestly say were good but didn't cheat in JK.. I would be at the top of that list.

Thanks and Good Day all

Wow Yack.. it seems like you really care about JK.. Who cares if you were good or not... IT seems like your trying so hard for Somebody to say... (yea yack was the man.. or Yack was legendary) Not gonna happen.. So fuck it.. You werent that amazing.. Get over yourself.. Move on with life.. 🙂

PS whats with the filters... are their people underage on this board? or is it a religion thing....

ya the guy that made this board is like a 12 yea old computer hacker, hes a pro with netbus!

When were you good at nf sabers yackman? I'm not being mean or anything, just wondering because you talk about it all the time. I thought I remember you when I was at the top of ladder all the time but there were no good Prince people then. I dont even remember the time frame when I was #1. My memory sucks so badly.

This point to this whole thread is that anyone that was considered to be one the best at the game more than likely hacked or cheated or tweaked of some sort.

As I played jk further into its history....ie 1999 and so on...i noticed that many of the players did not have the basic skills to play but had awsome aim and could grip so easily and distruct was so powerful. It took me a while, but I finally came to realize that everyone has cheating.

This is why so many people were dark. ....to further another thread..... The lighties would always beat darkies. The reason darkies ever won playing a light sider was because it was easier to hack as a dark player than a light player. Here is my case in point: If playing dark was better and easier to kill than being light, then why was most players at the beginning light sided? It wasn't until elite hacking because a problem that dark players were so prevelent.

TWC_DarkJester

This is why so many people were dark. ....to further another thread..... The lighties would always beat darkies. The reason darkies ever won playing a light sider was because it was easier to hack as a dark player than a light player. Here is my case in point: If playing dark was better and easier to kill than being light, then why was most players at the beginning light sided? It wasn't until elite hacking because a problem that dark players were so prevelent.

I disagree. Most FF'ers that were "caught" hacking were usually second rate, and would almost always lose to the more skilled player (even with their hacks).
Without item control you're fucked no matter what. No amount of bacta hacks, extra health/shields, extra force *'s, or auto-aim (if it even exists) is going to save you if you don't control the surge, bacta, guns, shields, etc.
Besides putting an extra star on speed or jump, theres no way you can cheat enough to make up for shitty movement/poor strategy. And it will be completely obvious if they over do, if not then extremely suspicious to everyone. Using one or two bacta per life, having an extra shield, or some enhanced force powers doesn't mean jack shit unless you can use them.

This (hacking) is the biggest difference between the FF and NF community. In NF you have one way to kill your opponent, saber or conc. Mines and rail dets worked in some situations, or st, rep or bowcaster if you wanted to show off. And you have fewer items to control that are crucial. Plus everyone (that was good) moved at the same speed, relatively (warping or kb style).
A NF saberist could use god mode 100% of the time, or a nf gunner could toggle i nthe pool/ from far away, and nobody could say beyond a shadow of a doubt that they cheat.
FF was more about strategy, style, and timing. Aim and movement are important too, but you can win without them.

The only FF hacks I could see slipping past everyone (for all these years) are:

Grip that completely prevents movement, or with a larger gripping radius. Larger pull radius for lighty. God toggle for tunnels. Extendo saber. Unlimited mana/force absorb for lighty, extra for darkie. Silent bacta (wouldn't work very well in BGJ). Maybe extra shields, but again it wouldn't work in BGJ. A few hacks might slip by in a teams game (that the player might not normally use in 1v1).

And even if you have and use ALL of those you're still probably going to lose to the elites or get caught within your first few games by everyone. Take a guy like DaRtHToMmY or DarkSide for example, who used more sneaky cogs at once than anyone I've ever heard of, and they still couldn't manage a kill against any of the elites. They might have beaten a couple decent or good players because of hteir hacks though.

I guess so many players chose light back in the day because either:
A) Easy win: a lot of players (including good ones) played dark vs dark only, so they didn't know how to kill lighties.
B) Strategy: Perhaps they were more confident in their conc/raildet aiming than in their movement, force usage, sabering. And they liked the fact that their gun can't be pulled with absorb on, NF gunners especially.

And the NF saberists might not have liked dark powers, and speed, jump, etc so they used protection. BGJ FF dvd was about force usage rather than sabering.
C) they were newbies and they wanted to pretend they're obi-wan kenobi from A New Hope
D) 2v2: everyone knows that a halfway decent light/dark team will usually beat a good dark dark or a light light team in oasis. I can elaborate upon this if anyone wants.
E) they knew their opponent was a one dimensional darkie.

My favorite way to play was light vs dark. Although Dark is superior (besides bespin) I loved going lighty.
The lighty is the deciding factor in oasis FF, even though the dark usually gets the points, the lighty controlls who has a gun and shields. What most people don't know is absorb can be timed, and it will run out if you don't collect boosts and surge. If you try pulling the lighty every 5 to 10 seconds you will catch him offguard, and that's when you strike. Besides, after the first kill it really doesn't matter, unless theres a huge gap in gunning skill or movement it all goes back to who controls items.

But the bottom line is you have to be good at both sides of the force or you're doomed the first time you play a lighty in bespin or protection in bgj.

Sorry about the essays guys. dont blame ya if you get bored. to paraphrase, hacks may be the only reason that some nfers are considered elite, but in ff it doesn't make that big of a difference.

and which side of the force you use is inconsequential in a light vs dark oasis ff unless youre a lighty and you try facing my dark. if yo uonly play d v d ill go light (on any map) and crush you, because i can.

but dark is still superior in BGJ, blades, votjt.
lighty has teams anything, bespin
oasis or loading term could go either way

This point to this whole thread is that anyone that was considered to be one the best at the game more than likely hacked or cheated or tweaked of some sort.

As I played jk further into its history....ie 1999 and so on...i noticed that many of the players did not have the basic skills to play but had awsome aim and could grip so easily and distruct was so powerful. It took me a while, but I finally came to realize that everyone has cheating.

This is why so many people were dark. ....to further another thread..... The lighties would always beat darkies. The reason darkies ever won playing a light sider was because it was easier to hack as a dark player than a light player. Here is my case in point: If playing dark was better and easier to kill than being light, then why was most players at the beginning light sided? It wasn't until elite hacking because a problem that dark players were so prevelent.

TWC_DarkJester

Players didn't have the basic skills? What basic skills are you talking about? It's easy to find out if someone is hacking in FF especially when they go dark if you are hogging everything (bacta, pulling health packs etc). Just by the amount of health a destruction hit takes along with grip you can determine when they should be dead. FF has evolved, Dark players have learned how to play against a lighty (atleast the good ones). It just takes much longer to kill a lighty. You have to take away their force boosts and shields. Don't let them get the vest or shields. I always love camping in their surge hole waiting for their surge to come up so I can pull it, and if they'd try to come into the tunnel I'd just hit them with my rail gun. 2 hits will hurt them greatly, and at the same time they only go in the surge hole for force so most of the time they run out of it and thats when you grip/destruct them.

Just because you get beaten badly doesn't mean you have to go in that denial state and say that everyone must cheat and thats the only reason why you're losing is because of hacks. Kind of childish if you ask me.

Reiko pretty much elaborated on everything I was trying to say... but I figured that was just common sense by now. I know you're probably an accomplished JK player and all, but you seem to have the same dilemna as most players did: you didn't join the dP/DSbr training camp (aka WD). So it's all good. I try to be nice about it most of the time. Unfortunately Nikon and most of my buddies aren't really as understanding.

If you want to see some shit play a game with nightmarez and just watch him move and try to emulate all of the crazy shit he does. hes the best and most innovative jedi knight player of all time. he's the dude that taught me how to kill lighties with mine fire 1 and people with bowcasters in ff and shit. most of my opinions and knowledge came from the shit i learned from him.

furthermore... once my jk is working ill have some free time to spend training anyone that's willing to learn, and possibly share what they know. even if it's your "first time on the zone" dont be shy. not that im the most skilled player, but what i lack in talent i make up for in strategy (quite possibly drunken strategy). the idea is to fight smart not hard.

Players didn't have the basic skills? What basic skills are you talking about? It's easy to find out if someone is hacking in FF especially when they go dark if you are hogging everything (bacta, pulling health packs etc). Just by the amount of health a destruction hit takes along with grip you can determine when they should be dead. FF has evolved, Dark players have learned how to play against a lighty (atleast the good ones). It just takes much longer to kill a lighty. You have to take away their force boosts and shields. Don't let them get the vest or shields. I always love camping in their surge hole waiting for their surge to come up so I can pull it, and if they'd try to come into the tunnel I'd just hit them with my rail gun. 2 hits will hurt them greatly, and at the same time they only go in the surge hole for force so most of the time they run out of it and thats when you grip/destruct them.

Just because you get beaten badly doesn't mean you have to go in that denial state and say that everyone must cheat and thats the only reason why you're losing is because of hacks. Kind of childish if you ask me.

Hacking that I was talking about was not how much it took to kill a darkie off it was how much damage they inflicted. What I always noticed starting in 2000 was how powerful distruction was....it was too powerful. I received so many self kills from playing with darkies. I rarely got self kills back in the old days and that was against the top players. I don't know...it just seemed to me that the darkies powers increased with time and the skill levels did not. Wait...I'm not dissing great dark players in 2000+ compared to pre-2000. I'm just saying great players skills stayed the same but their force abilities increased. Not application...the damage ability. Figure it up......elite hacking, mpc tinkering, ect.

Camping in the light surge hole.????...come on. If you were camping in there and a lightly still came in there with no battle plan as to force you out...then the lightie skill you was playing was pretty low. I hope you were talking about playing a newbie. I had no problem with a darkie that camped in the light hole repeatly. He missed out on his surge too and by him staying put meant the the whole map was mine to gobble up. I would have no problem missing out on two surges provided that I pulled the dark surge both times and gobbled most of the map. Lastly...why did you still have a gun playing a lightie?

I'm not being childish about anything. I got by behind handed to me by many of players in the game that I considered by best. Did it bother me at the time? Yes. Did I try to do better the next time? Yes. Did I beat the same people that beat me? Yes. Did they beat me again later? Yes.

Anyways....what am I talking about? This is yesterday year 6 times over. By now I wouldn't even know how to pull any kind of surge and run at the first sight of a distruction! I wouldn't need a distruction to help me self kill....all I would have to do is run around oasis a couple of times hitting the walls.

Like I already stated, FF has evolved from 97 to 2000. Back in 97-98 they didn't use force seeing nor did they know how to strafe jump from the health packs of oasis to the bacta bridge to the conc rifle. With players moving at a faster pace, and destructions well placed causes the players to fall from the bridge or self pretty easily. Over a period of time, players get smarter. They know where an opponent is most likely to jump, to react. That's the only thing that has changed, that's why great players like Jeb and Luke18 and others never had these 'suspicions' yet only you did.

The reason I bring up the camping in their light surge is because people who use dark aren't as dependant on their own surge other than the lighty. I'm not there camping the whole game, only when their light surge pops up, and it's pretty easy to time it. Who cares if a lighty pulls a dark surge? Lighties need force to DEFEND themselves from darkies. If a dark player just hogs the force boosts all game long, he won't need his surge which will cause the lighty to run out of force and he will most likely die by grip/destruction easily. Lights do pull like crazy, but when I'm in their surge hole ALREADY shooting rails at the entrance, he'll be hurt or close to dead even if he does manage to pull my rail gun which is exactly what I'm trying to do. Hurt them little by little until they die. Plus, a smart dark player doesn't take his gun out when he's near a lighty (unless he's in a closed area, like the surge hole). That is the main reason why I don't lose my gun to a lighty.

Oh, and the reason why a lot of people choose being light is because it's easier(talking about oasis). As a lighty, you don't have to have fast movement around the map. All you need is to stay outside the light surge area. Being Light is all about playing defensive, while playing dark is being on the offensive. And the reason why lots of players have chosen to play as dark is because it brings more excitment to the game. You're not as dependant on the surge as lighties are.

Btw, how much is too much damage? How much damage did a destruction USED to take off? How much damage did a destruction take off in 2000?

*shrugs* this thread bores. me.. lotsa FF back and forth stuff that i'm really uninterested in cause I didnt play.. *shrugs* maybe if i played more FF i'd car emore about it..

towards .. StJackie .. ya maybe i wasnt that great when you played.. (if you are Saint) I do remember England and I beating the team YO_Smack and YO_Black .. in a tourny . Early 2000 ... and that was before I was even really good... I got an old school screeny somewhere.. if u want i could find it but.. whats it matter.. haha.. i only take a trip down memorly lane in JK when im really bored.. your here posting as much as I am.. i really don't care about what people say about me.. but I ..
1 was not a hacker.. and
2 was reallly good at nf sabers for not being a hacker..
case closed.. no one can argue it.. you see why I have ("God of NF Sabers" next to my name here..? well i didn't give myself the title lol. just b/c someone thought I was worth being called it.

Niftysaber,.. i cant remember who the heck you are.. or playing you.. all I can say is.. play me now a days .. unless you lost all your hacks and don't wana destroy your leet rep...

*shrugs*.. no sence wasting anymore time.

Like I already stated, FF has evolved from 97 to 2000. Back in 97-98 they didn't use force seeing nor did they know how to strafe jump from the health packs of oasis to the bacta bridge to the conc rifle.

What? Who has been feeding you wrong information? Force seeing was used from the very start of the regular release in '97 and many other moves. In '98 was the first time I saw the strafing across the canyon and jihad master showed me that. I didn't see anything new after 98. Next thing you will be telling me is that we didn't know how to get up the conc rifle area from the bottom floor.

The reason I bring up the camping in their light surge is because people who use dark aren't as dependant on their own surge other than the lighty. I'm not there camping the whole game, only when their light surge pops up, and it's pretty easy to time it. Who cares if a lighty pulls a dark surge? Lighties need force to DEFEND themselves from darkies. If a dark player just hogs the force boosts all game long, he won't need his surge which will cause the lighty to run out of force and he will most likely die by grip/destruction easily. Lights do pull like crazy, but when I'm in their surge hole ALREADY shooting rails at the entrance, he'll be hurt or close to dead even if he does manage to pull my rail gun which is exactly what I'm trying to do. Hurt them little by little until they die.

I totally agree with you there that lighties are more dependent on surges than darkies. And yes, lighties need the force to defend theirselves, but darkies need the force to ATTACK others. This is the natural ying and yang. You say that the darkie that hogs won't need his surge...that goes the same for lightie. A darkie without any force(surge or very little boosts) will be very ineffective in attack. But that is the natural course of an evenly match lightie vs darkie. If they are both very good and evenly matched the game will ebb and flow depending on who gobbled more from time to time. The lightie will run and and attack when he is low on force and a darkie will do the same in the same situation. The other guy has to be the agressor when they have won the gobble game(darkie and lighties).

Plus, a smart dark player doesn't take his gun out when he's near a lighty (unless he's in a closed area, like the surge hole). That is the main reason why I don't lose my gun to a lighty.

Yep, all the good players would go without a gun until they had the advantage....like either closed-in areas or had a lightie on the run and they didn't have time to worry about pot shots and lighties were keeping their distance.

Oh, and the reason why a lot of people choose being light is because it's easier(talking about oasis). As a lighty, you don't have to have fast movement around the map. All you need is to stay outside the light surge area. Being Light is all about playing defensive, while playing dark is being on the offensive. And the reason why lots of players have chosen to play as dark is because it brings more excitment to the game. You're not as dependant on the surge as lighties are.

Ok...I completely disagree with you there. They must have not been any good lighties playing during your time. We both know that to stay put or to camp is DEATH. To truely play ff, either light or dark, means never stop moving. Your agility in the oasis was your foundation to survival. With the ability to move through and around oasis(never making a familiar path) meant avioding the tracking of the opponent or tracking down your victim. Neither side of playing light or dark was cut and dry on defensive or offensive. Like I said above, the ebb and flow of a game. Playing either side meant that you either was the attacker or attackee(new word!) Show me a totally agressive darkie and I'll show you one that will lose every time to an evenly skilled lightie. And no...I know you're not talking about someone that keeps attacking until his force/health/sheilds run out. I know that being light is by nature of the forces you use to be defensive and the same forbeing dark is to be aggresive. I have waited for darkies to make their move when they have enough force to make an onslaught and there is usually their outcomes. I run, he runs or we both run for something more. I've been tracked down after losing the gobble game. I've tracked down darkies after they have lost the gobble game. Agression or defense is all about the need in the moment. I've been the agressor many times before as a lightie. To wait for a darkie to get his force mana up every freaking time was suicide.

Like I already stated, FF has evolved from 97 to 2000. Back in 97-98 they didn't use force seeing nor did they know how to strafe jump from the health packs of oasis to the bacta bridge to the conc rifle.

What? Who has been feeding you wrong information? Force seeing was used from the very start of the regular release in '97 and many other moves. In '98 was the first time I saw the strafing across the canyon and jihad master showed me that. I didn't see anything new after 98. Next thing you will be telling me is that we didn't know how to get up the conc rifle area from the bottom floor.

The reason I bring up the camping in their light surge is because people who use dark aren't as dependant on their own surge other than the lighty. I'm not there camping the whole game, only when their light surge pops up, and it's pretty easy to time it. Who cares if a lighty pulls a dark surge? Lighties need force to DEFEND themselves from darkies. If a dark player just hogs the force boosts all game long, he won't need his surge which will cause the lighty to run out of force and he will most likely die by grip/destruction easily. Lights do pull like crazy, but when I'm in their surge hole ALREADY shooting rails at the entrance, he'll be hurt or close to dead even if he does manage to pull my rail gun which is exactly what I'm trying to do. Hurt them little by little until they die.

I totally agree with you there that lighties are more dependent on surges than darkies. And yes, lighties need the force to defend theirselves, but darkies need the force to ATTACK others. This is the natural ying and yang. You say that the darkie that hogs won't need his surge...that goes the same for lightie. A darkie without any force(surge or very little boosts) will be very ineffective in attack. But that is the natural course of an evenly match lightie vs darkie. If they are both very good and evenly matched the game will ebb and flow depending on who gobbled more from time to time. The lightie will run and and attack when he is low on force and a darkie will do the same in the same situation. The other guy has to be the agressor when they have won the gobble game(darkie and lighties).

Plus, a smart dark player doesn't take his gun out when he's near a lighty (unless he's in a closed area, like the surge hole). That is the main reason why I don't lose my gun to a lighty.

Yep, all the good players would go without a gun until they had the advantage....like either closed-in areas or had a lightie on the run and they didn't have time to worry about pot shots and lighties were keeping their distance.

Oh, and the reason why a lot of people choose being light is because it's easier(talking about oasis). As a lighty, you don't have to have fast movement around the map. All you need is to stay outside the light surge area. Being Light is all about playing defensive, while playing dark is being on the offensive. And the reason why lots of players have chosen to play as dark is because it brings more excitment to the game. You're not as dependant on the surge as lighties are.

Ok...I completely disagree with you there. They must have not been any good lighties playing during your time. We both know that to stay put or to camp is DEATH. To truely play ff, either light or dark, means never stop moving. Your agility in the oasis was your foundation to survival. With the ability to move through and around oasis(never making a familiar path) meant avioding the tracking of the opponent or tracking down your victim. Neither side of playing light or dark was cut and dry on defensive or offensive. Like I said above, the ebb and flow of a game. Playing either side meant that you either was the attacker or attackee(new word!) Show me a totally agressive darkie and I'll show you one that will lose every time to an evenly skilled lightie. And no...I know you're not talking about someone that keeps attacking until his force/health/sheilds run out. I know that being light is by nature of the forces you use to be defensive and the same forbeing dark is to be aggresive. I have waited for darkies to make their move when they have enough force to make an onslaught and there is usually their outcomes. I run, he runs or we both run for something more. I've been tracked down after losing the gobble game. I've tracked down darkies after they have lost the gobble game. Agression or defense is all about the need in the moment. I've been the agressor many times before as a lightie. To wait for a darkie to get his force mana up every freaking time was suicide.

See that's where you're wrong about Dark needing lots of force power to attack a lighty compared to a lighty needing lots of force power to survive. Dark can grip very easily without wasting much of his force power. Lighties consume A LOT (nearly half) of force power when they use force absorb. Now lets say if they both evenly hog all the force boosts and they both pull eachother's surges, the lighty still won't have enough for force absorb and will most likely die.

I know good lighties never stop moving, but the best place to be at his outside the surge area because that's near the vest and light surge and at that area you have a clear shot at your opponent most of the time. You're also close to the shields and bacta. Of course you're going to attack him when you know he's not strong enough to attack you. Playing aggresive as a dark isn't always playing smart. It depends on who you're playing.

The whole point I'm trying to make is the best at FF DIDN'T hack, which you're saying they did. You're saying that the destruction and grip damage has gone up from the last time you played back in the day. So tell me, what was the destruction/grip damage back in 97-98 and the destruction/grip damage in 2000+? What you're basically saying is that DSbr_AeRoN hacked, JaG_AssKicker hacked, DSbr_Narz, myself and others hacked on something you have a hunch on. Btw, AssKicker and AeRoN as lighties are the best of the game. And don't say it's because they hacked. I'm sure PatWar and P0rkCh0p would have gotten killed by these guys. And do you know why? Because like I said, players get smarter, the game evolves.