Top 5 (or 10) all-around JK players of "all time?"

ya i dont blame ya clumsy, around 1999 most Prince were atypical hormone driven teenagers, and even into early 2000 that was the case.

The good ones were mostly not allias's though, at least in the early days.
There was a time where I didn't even know who was alliasing in Prince though lol.

Quite oddly we started playing JK ladder around the same time.,
I would of avoided playing me too tho 🙂
Cable and Deetrix were both good guys, i wonder what happened to em.

Cable and Deetrix were both good guys, i wonder what happened to em.

So do I. Players just vanished for some reasons. 🙁

Like Sacred.. he vanished.. then pops up again..gets to the final of a tourney .. sticks around for three days and then vanishes again. The same thing with Savant. And Axion vanished as well.. or wait. Axion went and left to another continent. There were just many guys that I really liked and just disappeared.

It really wasn't just a prince problem either, any clan that had a reputation of having some good players in it had to struggle with alias's and prepubesant newbs. Looking back I don't really see the ladder quite so much as the glory days. Hacking and false reporting were so rampant at some points that it was almost a joke. It did offer an oppertunity to develope your skill by playin some of the best at the time. I pretty sure I ust to use the keyboard for gaybers early on, but as Droome's warping style became more widely used I switched to mouse. I think that the early warping actually did have some strategy, but it ended up degenerating into random mouse jerking as more and more people started to abuse it. It could be tough to keep up with sometimes with the keyboards slow turning radius. Although, some guys managed to do pretty well as keyboarders. I think early on in JK most people used kb for gaybers, but I could be wrong.

Ya Zodiac I agree with ya 100% Prince used to have some amazing saberists for a good 5 or so months late 1999..that really disappeared off the face of the planet.. and not many people remember em but me. Guys like (Yevaud, Mirager, and Ogion) Yevaud actually was in Prince for about 3 years but he came on about as much as Sacred came on for VDS. Those guys were before Eugenius and England and then later Sacred and Axion and then even later, Oxide, you zodiac, sculpt, Neo, and countless other really decent people were in Prince. 🙂 Just a lil Prince history i had to throw in there.

Anyhow, ya clumsy I started out in Ladder and Full version JK playing.. JK on a joystick., I continued to play on a joystick until early 2000. I was really competetive on the joystick (it had a quicker response time than keyboard but not as fast as mouse), I'm pretty sure I placed in a number tournys playing with joystick. Even once I switched over to mouse I kept much of the same style. I do have tendency to warp and run around randomly, however, when I'm bored and not really trying, which is affective to a certain mediocre saberist point.
Ya Ladder got to be crap and was disbanded because of all the free wins going on,and I think someone hacked it at one point in time which was the killing straw... but we did revive it for awhile to a fairly good quality for awhile there at the end of 2000.

you know why, because clan whores joined your clan, if it was prince in late 99 you can bet your life on the fact they whored Prince, i did it all the time, i would join a clan for a month to 3 or so to play in a tourney, maybe burn up the ladder or something then move on... stuff like that happened all the time...

and ya alot of guys i knew that were good used keyboard. while this seems like a good opportunity to engage in a mouse jerker vs. old school argument its nothing that hasnt been said a million times before and we will never change eachothers opinions so ill just leave it at this.

im on the fence for that argument.

I think there were definate advantages to each. Mouse probably being better suited for tight spaces and keyboard for more open areas.
I remember some painful keyboard duels that went on forever until hands cramped up and nerves started slipping. That was probably my least favorite thing about using the keyboard, although it did offer smoother movement and more consistent swinging arc's. Even after I switched to mouse I still mostly played main with the kb.

phelan i tend to disagree with your statements.. the guys who were in Prince that I mentioned, didn't whore Prince.. other than maybe Eugenius and other big names i know.. the guys i mentioned.. all weren't too good when they started in Prince but after playing w/ me for awhile they were on an equal level as me...

clumsy i also tend to disagree with your statements haha.. I think.. keyboard is better in tighter spaces.. because it requires more control and precise movement,.. which i think use lose with the mouse..(you get sloppy = half the moves you make arent even necessary) when im playing somewhere tight i tend to use primary keyboard moves.. and less sharp turning which mouse is capable of.
in main . .. i like to mix the mouse's speed with keyboard's formality.
in ship for instance.. i could play almost as good whether using keyboard or mouse. but in cave on the other hand.. or cliff (more open spaces) .. keyboard = more long defensive battles. .. better JK playing ???? it's a tough argument. if you can play solid defense with the mouse though.. i think it beats solid defense with the keyboard. and offensively speaking the superior advantage goes to the mouse.

no, mouse would be better for tight spaces as it allows you to react and move quicker since the fight is happening in closer quarters to your character. Clumsy is right.

I think it depends what we define as 'tight spaces'.

If we're talking on the cliff, there is a wide range of angles you can move in, so I would say the mouse would be superior. If we're talking about the ship, movement there is more linear, so I could see the keyboard being just as effective.

ya., that's what im goin for there punk 🙂 like big squared levels.. like valley of the jedi tower.. or even sabering in bespin in my demo days. (in those little rooms leading to the elevators). if I used mouse I gained no advantage whatsoever.. those areas where small tight (linear) type spaces.

look i really dont think im the exception to the rule which is why im so stubborn on this issue. but i never had and never will have a problem with the newer style. i always played the "old school" style and always will, i was not vulnerable to the quickness of dr00me's style because i had a brain. klav can attest to this i think, he made a comment to me a while back about how he was surprised that a player that played my style could so easily and quickly dispatch people in a duel, and by no means do we get along so its not like he has a biased opinion based on a friendship we may or may not have, and it would be more likely that he would vouch against me in this case. but if you asked him im sure he would confirm the fact i can handle myself with any of you self proclaimed greats. every style has there own strengths and weaknesses. the fact remains that a skilled player should know his strengths and more importantly his limitations in a duel. its all about being able to manipulate your opponents weaknesses more effectively then him in my opinion and that is what sets the great players from the good... the thing i find is that my philosophy was more common in the older players which is why i will always believe that my era was above and beyond any era's after it. my strength was that i used my head to win, many saberists that followed used speed and warping to win... we approach the game differently, the sad thing is that you guys didnt really get a chance to experience what i did, and ya i know you were around then yack, but you were admittedly a newbie, and we all know that newbies arent really in the loop when it comes to the creme de la creme, and to me the difference between all of you and i, is that i got to see and play alot of the guys that came after me. and pretty much the guys you did get a chance to play were either coming back to have a quick romp in bgj for old times sakes, or they were the mediocre who stuck around cuz they never accomplished anything.

and if this is over your head think of it this way, when you go into a certain situation say im sitting in the cave flat footed... i will approach/defend the position im in, in a much different way then lets say yackman would, just because i cant pull off certain moves like you can doesnt mean i dont have my own way of handling that situation, you guys just discount it because i dont have the ability to handle it the way you do, well in my opinion you lack the ability to handle it the way I do so really your argument about that particular point is moot.

Ultimately it comes down to personal preference, although I think there are some pretty clear movement disadvantages in using the kb, but like phe said it's definately possible to adjust to different situations, and some of the good players were able to do so while others weren't. It's hard to compare the generally defensive kb vs kb battles I had back in the day with the more offensive mouse on mouse duels that happened in later generations. Not to say that they weren't as intense, just different.

Of course not everyone that used the mouse was a random jerker just like not everyone that used the kb was overtly defensive. My strat was always to just react off of the other persons movement and to find the right timing for their lag. I think the defensive kber and pure warper were on the opposite sides of the spectrum. In both cases your sacrificing either control or movement.

There are probably alot of pure warpers who would claim to have had control just like there are, no doubt, alot of kbers who would say that they are quick. I'd say I fell in between these two extremes, I enjoyed the quicker movement the mouse offered, but moved purposefully slower to achieve the greater control and intensive lag timing that was a trademark of the kb style. In other words, you could be fast when ya needed to be and more presise everywhere in between. :end lame post:

(edit: good call Heretik)

Hey guys, you might want to take a moment and consider using paragraphs, it makes your post a lot easier to read. 😉

i agree with clumsy's last paragraph. his last two in fact. and i agree with heretik. :b it's perfect for changing up the pace which really confuses and distracts mediocre to even good players. id say super newbies are the only ones that dont fall for it (because they keep charging no matter what you do). using a 'broken-rhythm' is something that bruce lee talked about a lot, and it works great in ff and nf. sometimes standing completely still is an effective strategy, making your opponent think you lagged out, and when they approach you to make sure, you strike. that's something that spanker does to me every game and i always seem to fall for it when im in a fit of rage. he stopps moving on the conc ledge and when i charge for the dark surge tunnel he fires a destruct which sends me into the wall for a self kill. i hate that :b