Top 5 (or 10) all-around JK players of "all time?"

I'm going to start this off by quoting Clumsy as he broke down what he thinks are the best players in each category. If we were to ask him to compile a Top 10 for each category, I do not think anyone would make every list and thus even be a nominee for the title of this thread.

"
I removed clumsy's comments since people are illiterate!

You know, this topic is really amazing, and after 13 pages I do not believe anyone has come anywhere close to posting a decent top 5 list..

The easiest way to figure this out is to eliminate everyone else. Obviously whoever is in the Top 5 had to be in some big name clans (at least one), so we can eliminate hundreds of thousands of newbies and tens of thousands of lame clans and we are left with maybe 70 clans.

So, think of each clan and lets see if there are any members that standout as being "all-around masters", regardless if that occurred while they were in that specific clan or not.

316, Ancient..no

What about Atomic? Darkjester comes to mind, but he wasnt very good at sabers nf or ctf..let alone guns nf. Krypt? hmm. Reaper?.. nope, Atomic is out.

BSB, DD, DE members are brezzed over. DeltA was gunning. Prozac could be a nominee though..

DH? Great clan, but EoS has a better chance for all around

DSbr? Think of Sabers NF or CTF..the closest candidate could be MaDruK..and thats a far cry from Top 5 ever

EA? Armageddon, Allard, Master, Morgue all get my consideration, but I believe almost any of them would have been raped by anyone in VDS for Sab NF or anyone in Ji for CTF (i wont even f'n mention TF!)

Element..skip
EM..skip

EoS? Maybe dart, Josh did well in every setting, I want to say Quake, he got strong at sabers and guns FF later on and was great in sabers nf and guns nf.. Quake deserves to be on that top 5. How about lotp? nh and goldsemen fall apart in sab nf

GE..skip
GS? BlazingSaber, i believe was weak in guns, so hes out. Karma got better in guns later on and became famous in UT and quake.. thoughts? ChosenOne also stands out, say what you want but over time he was dominant in every field, he gets my vote.

HDK..obviously not, all gunners

IRN? What about DK? I think he should be considered. Was Prozac strong in ff? everyone else falls apart at sabs nf

JaG? same problem

JCS? Ok..there must be someone here right? Well Arma, Allard and Karma are here, but already mentioned..no one else, mostly all saberists..hard to even find one amazing guns ff player (aside from maybe patton or quake..and thats pushing it)

JE, JEV, JFF, Ji..skip

Jihad is a good one to bring up, but since half the clan was aliases..its hard to pick..but if anyone i would say memnoch, but he was weakest in sab nf/ctf or master

JKE, JRT, KDD, KJD..skip

KoAC..but only c1, or maybe merc?

KRT.. where to begin? Wiz, Mata, Mac, Syco easily make the list...you'll have to provide strong proof as to why you may think im wrong on this. Kaminari and Memnoch for consideration but mem was weaker in sabers

MERC..uh skip? I'd love to say pork, but think of him playing a 1v1 sabers nf cwt gold match..

NK..uh freezefire? lol
NKM..guns, skip
PA..krypt? mav? master maybe..
RS, SF, SGP, SJD, SLJ, SLDR, SOD, SyK..skip

TaX? id love to say jeb..lol hubez would be a smart nomination maybe..
TF...not a single famous saberist in the list..nf or ff
TWC..thrasher? even gord could be nominated if you think about it..
VDS: cant think of a single ELITE gunner in there
WD: phoenix? think of all settings..

So if you use logic and history to deduce this question, we are left with only a small handful of possible candidates. Everyone should come to this same conclusion by pure mathematics.

Anyone in this list should be within the "Top 10" for each individual category, otherwise there is no merit to their nomination.

I have named some people who should possibly be nominated but I don't know enough about their backgrounds to make the judgment, so I have raised the question so future posts may deliberate over it.

Using deduction and my pathetic overabundant knowledge of JK history, I have compiled the list of the Top All Around JK players of all time.

(in no particular rank/order)

1) Karmacoma - GS, JCS, TaX, WD, DH, IRN, SLDR, KoAC, HDK

2) Quake - Element, Ancient, EoS, IRN

3) Allard - WaR, Atomic, EA, JCS, IRN, NK

4) Armageddon - EA, DH, GS, KoAC, IRN, RgP

5) ChosenOne - KRT, KoAC

6) MrWiz - KRT

7) Mata Leao - KRT

MacLeod - KRT, IRN

9) SyCo - KRT, Element, EoS

If you waste your time deducing the entire history of JK like this, you too should come to the same general conclusions.

Using deductions and JK history some other points are obvious:

1) KRT was the best all-around clan in JK history. It's depth in all fields was never met ever again.

2) DSbr, JaG, MERC were the best gunning clans and had the most impressive rosters

3) GS was the most "stacked" and impressive sabers clan in jk history.

4) TF were the masters of CTF

5) No clan after 2000 had significance when comparing the different eras of JK history. Although the time may have been different it is quite stupid to tell someone like Orko or Gord that "back then" people didnt know how to time and JK was very different. The best players back then dominated JK for a reason, and it wasnt because they were jerking off their mouses or didnt know how to time lag. That's like comparing Barry Bonds to Babe Ruth, its purely insulting to the game.

6) No player of significant value from 2000 onward came to be respected as an amazing "ALL AROUND" player. Arguments can be made about the individual lists, but if the different groups talk, every player from those eras would be counted out and that is a fact.

7) JK died in 2000 - fact. Compare the data. It's like after the Bulls dynasty was finished, that was JK. So the obvious golden year was 1998.

Say what you want, but I sadly know much more about JK history than probably everyone here combined. That is not something I am boasting about, rather it is something I say so people not waste their time on pointless rebuttals.

Wodz
Yoda of JK

Wodz
after writing a huge post like that do you ejaculate directly into your mouth or just on your stomach?

Obviously I was the best - and I don't remember you being in GS.
I was totally the PC that means Personnel Captain. ohhhhhhhhhh yeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaa

hahah the mere fact you listed those 3 names under nf guns shows you have spent too much time in your jk fantasy land to have any more valid opinions. mmx was discovered cheating even though i routinely smoked him, joeli wan aka ricoshit was pathetic in guns probably not in the top 100 of all time i almost beat him in my "tryout" for MERC and i was just a shitty keyboard player then also i killed TaX - literally highfive to myself aka TaX_honour, and majestar aka majestik aka wartorn was just horrible. majestar was like gresuf, he would pound nobodies then when it came time to play quote unquote top tier got worked like aeron in anything that requires field of vision.

for best ctf team ever i would say you are missing beefstu and retiari.

i will say this, maybe there were people that were as good as i was before i took over nf guns but there was nobody better afterwards.

DSbr dominates everyone, friendly reminder from your cool bros in DSbr who are nice, handsome and non-pretentious.

yes unfadeable I was in DSbr in 99. and no you wouldn't have heard of me since you were a mouse jerking newbie that was only known post 2000.

Gen, you and Lowbacca cannot read. Pick up a dictionary and learn what quotation marks mean. I clearly said that I was quoting Clumsy's previous comments........................

I even put you in consideration for one of the best of all time, yet you mock my text and therefore insult yourself, good job.

Your entire post seems to have nothing to do with the actual topic of the threat and or my post....

At least choda's point has relevance, even though i don't recall mentioning myself+gs in this entire thread. if your memory is bad, go ask someone else.

i agree with phelans comments, although fade claims to be from like jihad

oh and gen, maj wasnt whoretorn, that was julie. thats a fact. i know maj irl

Wodz, it's obvious you don't know shit. Of course gen would rape me at nf guns, what a big surprise. You never played FF so your opinion = shit! Go google some more jk facts so you can seem smart to these guys. I rock

I'm going to start this off by quoting Clumsy as he broke down what he thinks are the best players in each category. If we were to ask him to compile a Top 10 for each category, I do not think anyone would make every list and thus even be a nominee for the title of this thread.

"
I removed clumsy's comments since people are illiterate!

You know, this topic is really amazing, and after 13 pages I do not believe anyone has come anywhere close to posting a decent top 5 list..

The easiest way to figure this out is to eliminate everyone else. Obviously whoever is in the Top 5 had to be in some big name clans (at least one), so we can eliminate hundreds of thousands of newbies and tens of thousands of lame clans and we are left with maybe 70 clans.

So, think of each clan and lets see if there are any members that standout as being "all-around masters", regardless if that occurred while they were in that specific clan or not.

316, Ancient..no

What about Atomic? Darkjester comes to mind, but he wasnt very good at sabers nf or ctf..let alone guns nf. Krypt? hmm. Reaper?.. nope, Atomic is out.

BSB, DD, DE members are brezzed over. DeltA was gunning. Prozac could be a nominee though..

DH? Great clan, but EoS has a better chance for all around

DSbr? Think of Sabers NF or CTF..the closest candidate could be MaDruK..and thats a far cry from Top 5 ever

EA? Armageddon, Allard, Master, Morgue all get my consideration, but I believe almost any of them would have been raped by anyone in VDS for Sab NF or anyone in Ji for CTF (i wont even f'n mention TF!)

Element..skip
EM..skip

EoS? Maybe dart, Josh did well in every setting, I want to say Quake, he got strong at sabers and guns FF later on and was great in sabers nf and guns nf.. Quake deserves to be on that top 5. How about lotp? nh and goldsemen fall apart in sab nf

GE..skip
GS? BlazingSaber, i believe was weak in guns, so hes out. Karma got better in guns later on and became famous in UT and quake.. thoughts? ChosenOne also stands out, say what you want but over time he was dominant in every field, he gets my vote.

HDK..obviously not, all gunners

IRN? What about DK? I think he should be considered. Was Prozac strong in ff? everyone else falls apart at sabs nf

JaG? same problem

JCS? Ok..there must be someone here right? Well Arma, Allard and Karma are here, but already mentioned..no one else, mostly all saberists..hard to even find one amazing guns ff player (aside from maybe patton or quake..and thats pushing it)

JE, JEV, JFF, Ji..skip

Jihad is a good one to bring up, but since half the clan was aliases..its hard to pick..but if anyone i would say memnoch, but he was weakest in sab nf/ctf or master

JKE, JRT, KDD, KJD..skip

KoAC..but only c1, or maybe merc?

KRT.. where to begin? Wiz, Mata, Mac, Syco easily make the list...you'll have to provide strong proof as to why you may think im wrong on this. Kaminari and Memnoch for consideration but mem was weaker in sabers

MERC..uh skip? I'd love to say pork, but think of him playing a 1v1 sabers nf cwt gold match..

NK..uh freezefire? lol
NKM..guns, skip
PA..krypt? mav? master maybe..
RS, SF, SGP, SJD, SLJ, SLDR, SOD, SyK..skip

TaX? id love to say jeb..lol hubez would be a smart nomination maybe..
TF...not a single famous saberist in the list..nf or ff
TWC..thrasher? even gord could be nominated if you think about it..
VDS: cant think of a single ELITE gunner in there
WD: phoenix? think of all settings..

So if you use logic and history to deduce this question, we are left with only a small handful of possible candidates. Everyone should come to this same conclusion by pure mathematics.

Anyone in this list should be within the "Top 10" for each individual category, otherwise there is no merit to their nomination.

I have named some people who should possibly be nominated but I don't know enough about their backgrounds to make the judgment, so I have raised the question so future posts may deliberate over it.

Using deduction and my pathetic overabundant knowledge of JK history, I have compiled the list of the Top All Around JK players of all time.

(in no particular rank/order)

1) Karmacoma - GS, JCS, TaX, WD, DH, IRN, SLDR, KoAC, HDK

2) Quake - Element, Ancient, EoS, IRN

3) Allard - WaR, Atomic, EA, JCS, IRN, NK

4) Armageddon - EA, DH, GS, KoAC, IRN, RgP

5) ChosenOne - KRT, KoAC

6) MrWiz - KRT

7) Mata Leao - KRT

MacLeod - KRT, IRN

9) SyCo - KRT, Element, EoS

If you waste your time deducing the entire history of JK like this, you too should come to the same general conclusions.

Using deductions and JK history some other points are obvious:

1) KRT was the best all-around clan in JK history. It's depth in all fields was never met ever again.

2) DSbr, JaG, MERC were the best gunning clans and had the most impressive rosters

3) GS was the most "stacked" and impressive sabers clan in jk history.

4) TF were the masters of CTF

5) No clan after 2000 had significance when comparing the different eras of JK history. Although the time may have been different it is quite stupid to tell someone like Orko or Gord that "back then" people didnt know how to time and JK was very different. The best players back then dominated JK for a reason, and it wasnt because they were jerking off their mouses or didnt know how to time lag. That's like comparing Barry Bonds to Babe Ruth, its purely insulting to the game.

6) No player of significant value from 2000 onward came to be respected as an amazing "ALL AROUND" player. Arguments can be made about the individual lists, but if the different groups talk, every player from those eras would be counted out and that is a fact.

7) JK died in 2000 - fact. Compare the data. It's like after the Bulls dynasty was finished, that was JK. So the obvious golden year was 1998.

Say what you want, but I sadly know much more about JK history than probably everyone here combined. That is not something I am boasting about, rather it is something I say so people not waste their time on pointless rebuttals.

Wodz
Yoda of JK

Wodz,
very impressive however why dont you just take the top
25 Cases ladder and CWT ladder players in each category and
make them the elite players?

cases ladder was for bgj nf. and most of the top 20 were newbies.

Thing is Wodz you're posting a clan like DSbr as one of the great "gunning" clans of all time but they didn't really have a respectable NF Division. I know Genetix and Matt joined eventually and that pretty much elevates any clan to elite in NF Guns but that wasn't until way later in JK.

The same thing can be said of a Clan like JaG. Did they really have FF'ers? AssKicker joined later, as did Reiko, but that's all that I can remember. That just doesn't a FF Clan Make, nor a NF clan. You've got to seperate FF and NF. DSbr just wasn't a NF Guns clan, and JaG just wasn't a FF Guns Clan.

I mean you could apply that statement to a Clan like dP which was made up of a lot of NF and FF Gunners (although dP was really just some former WDers and shit - I don't really count it as anything significant because of that. Nightmarez = WD imo).

And where's WD? WD was a hella good FF Guns clan for a while there (and FF sabs too). Death, Raven, Nightmarez, Mav were all in WD. I remember back in the day WD vs DSbr was the biggest FF thing going on in the zone at the time. A lot of DSbr's elite players came from WD, actually. WD was just nicer and recruited newbs in to the Clan as well. It doesn't make them any less elite. They had some amazing players. This was back when WD_Rage lead the Clan.

I don't think there is any single player that is in the ultimate Top 10 List in every single setting. Even if you exclude NF CTF (which was an amazingly fun and skill-based setting, btw, I wish more people got in to it), you're not going to find it. AeRoN was not in the Top 10 in FF Guns, NF Guns, FF Sabs, AND NF Sabs all at once. It just wasn't so. NiGhTMaReZ wasn't either.

Maybe there's some way oldschool elites I'm missing that might have been at one point but I sincerely doubt it.

It's possible that someone was good / elite at all settings (obviously), but being in the Top 10 List of every setting? I just don't think so dude lol

It would be impossible to list a top all-around list just basing it on that. The best way to make a list would be to take people that you remembered could kick ass in every setting and give them mention. Maybe compile a long 50 player list of people who could play pretty well at everything and then narrow it down from there. I don't know.

And why is Genetix here talking about FFers? Lol he never played FF. He doesn't know anything about it

EDIT: And dude, Allard could not FF Gun. Not very good at all. He came back to JK for a while and him and bobbo used to play NF and FF with me all the time. How is he top all-around? Your histories a little jaded mang

i'm sure you know thc that elite ff gunners are easily some of the best nf gunners. that's just the reality of it, good ff gunners have wicked aim. so while dsbr didn't declare themselves an "nf guns" clan, you know full well that they had some of the best if not the best ff gunners around. that translates to top nf gunners. AeRoN for example isn't known as an NF gunner. But in his prime he was on par with the all time greats.

wd when I first heard of them were a mediocre clan. and the DSbr "elites" that came to DSbr became elite while in DSbr. You know how you join newbie clans when you suck, and then you join a better clan when you get better? Just so happens there weren't a lot of good FF clans to choose from, and DSbr was the king of the hill. So there was only one choice for the good players to go to really. and before WD speaks, yes WD became a contender. But DSbr had top spot for a while before WD rose to that status.

JaG had lots of ff gunners, fleury and bud were both ff gunners as far as I knew. the list goes on but I know you werent around for it.

Top 5 of all time:

1. Chipe
2. StormRiPpEr
3. paul_holunga_4
4. paul_holunga_5
5. Tie between DSbr_Gordakarn and DSbr_Saberist

1. _yo_wasup
2. A_Big_Fat_CoW
3. TF_Tiger
4. redphoenix
5. LSF_Nickz2000

Anyone could give MacLeod a strong arguement for the top 10... but wodz... really? Those were the best dudes you could think of? I guess what I meant by "best all-around JK players" was this: CTF would be taken into consideration however it mainly means who would do good in an ironman battle (against me for sake of arguement). The rules are as follows:

Oasis FF to 15
Ji NF to 15
BGJ NF to 5 then multiply score by 3
and then BGJ FF to 15.

There's PLENTY of players (even old school enough for Wodz to credit) that would do good in this format that may not be great at NF sabers lets say but could just forfeit those points and make them up in the other settings.

Also I think it's stupid and asymptotic to say that JK died in 2000 because that's the exact same time broadband started to get big. Think about how much FF elevated once aeron and asskicker got cable and dsl. Same goes for NF guns too... once people were playing in 100 to 300 MS. All the old players (not counting the BGJ FFers... they were elite) got their asses handed to them when they came back and played on a good connection for their first time. Many of the old elites faded into obscurity.

So in closing all eras should count. We all know that the old schoolers probably deserve more credit because they played when the game was most popular and before everyone knew everything. However, we also know that the game was still very popular up until 2000 and still had like a couple hundred a day up until 02. Anyone that's played FF Oasis in the last 5 years knows damn well that these new guys can fucking play.

Well I didn't make much sense there but what I was trying to say is that
you could take any super elite FF gunner from 98-99 that stopped playing and they would get shut out or beat into negatives even by second tier guys like rampage (02 era when he hit his prime)... and not just because of rust. I mean even if they had say a few weeks worth of aliasing and unrusting offline they would get raped.

Oasis FF to 15
Ji NF to 15
BGJ NF to 5 then multiply score by 3
and then BGJ FF to 15.

I'll do this with anyone anytime.

There were VERY few who were good at both BGJ FF and Oasis FF. It was usually extremely polarized... like JZA, Jeb in BGJ. Aeron, Spanker in Oasis. But the good FF gunners tended to transition easily to NF guns. No one cares about BGJ NF... zero skill, total lag packet-loss luckfest.